Kevin’s Poly Story
Posted by mmkeekah on December 10, 2008
My next guest blogger for Polyamory Week is Kevin, who is in a MMF Vee triad (keekah-note: A Vee configuration in polyamory is when one person (known as the hinge) has relationships with two different people who are not romantically involved with each other (known as the legs.) The legs may or may not have a friendly relationship with each other.)
Kevin’s Story
Hello all… my name is Kevin. I’m in an MFM triad-vee poly-fi relationship with snowbunny and brother-husband. She is the “hinge” of the “Vee;” he and I are the “legs” of the “Vee.”
They were married in 1995.
I met them in 1995.
We became good friends in 1995.
We became a triad in 2006.
I worked closely with snowbunny in a professional capacity in 2004 and 2005. She and I exchanged many increasingly long, personal emails. We eventually confessed feelings we’d had for each other for ten years. We’d never dared to confess that to each other before, nor even to ourselves, because we were monogamous.
We actually researched and discovered polyamory as a solution to our dilemma. She didn’t want to leave brother-husband, and I didn’t want her too either. I also didn’t want to give up on my romantic feelings for her, and she didn’t want to give up on hers for me either.
Brother-husband wanted the romantic relationships to be preserved. Polyamory was, for us, a middle ground that allowed us all three to stay together.
We’ve had much rough ground to traverse and crises in which the three of us almost split up. However, I think we have weathered those crises. The three of us have a very positive relationship with each other today.
Brother-husband and I are good friends. We get together once a week, just the two of us, to watch movies together and whatnot. We’re both straight, so the friendship is conventional and platonic.
Brother-husband lives in a townhouse. I live in a condo, just minutes away, by bike or by car. Our lady, snowbunny, lives at both homes in turn; about half of her days with him and the remaining days with me.
All three of us get together for dinner, conversation, movies, and what have you, about twice a week. Currently our big thing is watching Battlestar Galactica together. We’ve just this year been introduced to the series; we’re thoroughly hooked.
All three of us are very plain vanilla. If you saw us on the street, you’d never guess there was anything unusual about us. Our clothes are ordinary. Our hairstyles are conservative and non-colored. Neither guy has any tattoos, nor piercings. She has one small decorative tattoo on her ankle, and she had two piercings on each ear but one each of those has “sealed up.” Sometimes she wears small silver-bead pierced earrings.
All three of us are pretty conservative for being poly. Our biggest rebellions are our Democrat leanings, her non-organized-religious leanings, and my agnostic leanings.
We’re committed to limiting our sexual relationships to us three — which amounts to him and her,and to me and her. We’re also committed to sticking with each other for life.
We don’t rule out the possibility of adding a fourth (perhaps even fifth?) person to our three-person circle. We’re not actively looking though; we’re happy with what we have. If we did bring in a new person, we’d all have to be 100% comfortable about it, and the new person would be bound by the same commitments (as just described).
For more info on the definition and nature of polyfidelity in general:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyfidelity
If someone was to ask me to sum up the two man-woman relationships in our triad:
I’d call brother-husband and snowbunny peaceful. I’d call snowbunny and me passionate.
From those two words you perhaps get a glimpse of the pros and cons in each relationship.
And that’s why snowbunny has two guys in her life. Because brother-husband and I each contribute something that is good and unique.
As to the guys’ perspective in all this … We think it’s the closest brotherhood two men can share, when they care so much about one another that they’re willing to share the woman they love. To us the whole thing is a very cool way to live.
The Beautiful Kind said
This was a great snapshot of your relationship! Thanks for sharing. It’s so nice having peaceful AND passionate! So snowbunny’s got it going ON!
Mark said
Thank you for your frank, cut-to-the chase explanation of how this works for you. I’m on the brink of initiating my own MFM relationship, and I was wondering if you could answer some questions for me. I would be very very grateful to have your input. Thanks again Kevin.
-Mark
marklarochelle@rocketmail.com
mmkeekah said
Mark,
Please feel free to ask your questions in the blog comments – that way we all learn from your experience. Or if you would rather send questions directly to me, I will email you so you can do so. Even if the questions are for Kevin, I can get the questions to him. Thanks for reading!
Mark said
Thank you for responding Mmkeekah! My little story is written out on a site called “Quad Talk.” It was the first time I reached out. I wrote it about three days ago, and I think it best encapsulates how I arrived at my questions, which are written out at the end. I would be honoured if you might read it and get back to me again. My username is Hinterland and my story is under the heading “Tell Us About Your Family,” although that really has nothing to do with this, it’s just that I couldn’t find an existing topic heading to write it under. …hmm.. Okay, I just went back to QuadTalk and you have to be a member to read it, so I just grabbed it all and pasted it in here for convenience. So… here goes, here’s what I wrote:
Hello, my name is Mark. I turned thirty years old this past December. I live in northern Ontario Canada, and it is my life’s passion and dream to be in a confirmed MFM relationship. If anyone out there can help to guide me into this position, I am thanking you now with all of my gratitude. Here is my story.
I had always wanted to share my love, my passion, my deepest playful happiness with another man, someone I got along with well, perhaps a best friend. I’m straight, and I’ve been married to the love of my life for ten years now. We had the opportunity to express our joy with a friend I had known for fifteen years. Anthony was a bright, quick-witted, devilishly funny man, and after a very satisfying night of delightful conversation, I suggested to him that he might be in a position to make love to my wife. The timing seemed right, so I whisked each one away to talk in private about such an idea. Both were amicable, and the game was on. Over the next two years, we would meet up in Toronto where Anthony lived, while my wife and I were on business, and each time we would share our conversations and after, our passion. This went on for a couple of years. Initially my wife was scared that she would be struck by lightning, but that quickly passed, and she revelled in the fact that she had two men in her life. One, her husband, the other her English boyfriend. She would send him flirtatious love letters and small gifts, and I had never been happier in my life, for her, and for myself. Anthony was very happy and excited about our arrangement, and he took the whole thing in a stride, which made everything smooth and easy. At first I thought it was just about the sex, which was wonderful of course. Later on, I realized that it wasn’t only the sexual part which excited me. It was the thought of sharing her with him that really worked me up and got me excited. I started fantasizing that he would move in with us and be there every morning for discussions, talks about books and musicians, history, politics, driving to unknown places all together, really sharing our lives. I am not a jealous man, I don’t think I have a scrap of it in my body, and Anthony, I think is the same. Later on, my wife and I had been seriously discussing starting a family. It was imminent, so we were thinking about it a lot. One night I finally confessed to her that although I did want to have a baby with her, I had some strange desire that it should be Anthony and her to have the first one. I couldn’t shake the feeling that I just wanted it to be this way. It made me so excited to think of her and Anthony creating this little life. She didn’t react like I thought she would. Initially after the confession, she was a little shocked, but she quickly recovered and asked me in all seriousness if I thought that I could love a child that wasn’t mine. I explained to her that if it was from her, then of course I could. She was not completely opposed to the idea, which was shocking for me, and such a relief that she didn’t think I was less of a man or damaged or wrong, or any of the scary things that were racing through my mind at the time. In the end, it was I who made the donation, and set the wheels in motion which gave way to the birth of my son. Six months after our son was born, we met with Anthony again, at our home. He was different this time, edgy, agitated. We chalked it up to him being uncomfortable around a baby, and we left it at that. Other friends of ours had this sort of crises when they realized that we had become parents. We saw him a second time. Again, more agitated, fidgety. We discovered later on that he was seeking treatment for drug addiction in Toronto. He hadn’t actually gone to recieve treatment, but it that it was inevitable. We were devestated. My best friend, my brother, had become an addict. We only communicated sporatically between visits, so it hadn’t been apparent to us that his meddling with club drugs had become such a problem. Up until now, things had been going so well. My dream of being in this kind of commited relationship seemed attainable, perhaps a little remotely, but I had hope. To make matters worse, my wife is so turned off about having another man, that the subject for her appears to be closed, a non-issue, something we did, but will not do again. So my question to all of you wonderful, experienced poly-familial-love people is this; How do I even approach the subject of poly love? It burns inside me, the desire hasn’t diminished even in the slightest. Is there hope for me, or must I live forever with this terrible hunger? Thank you so much for reading my story, you honour me with your attention.
Pining in the pines,
Mark marklarochelle@rocketmail.com
mmkeekah said
Well call me optimistic but I feel there is always hope. After all, life is about choices and I think also a little bit about perspective.
I will say this caveat: you can’t make anyone do anything without repercussions. The only person you control in this equation is you. So I guess my first piece of advice would be to ask yourself honestly if you want to risk your marriage for the chance to live polyamorously. And make no mistake – that would be the risk especially if your wife really doesn’t want to live and love polyamorously. So dig deep, make sure you really understand what you could be giving up in order to live polyamorously. And then you need to ask yourself what do you mean by wanting to be polyamorous? Do you want a full time other love partner living with you and your wife? Do you want a secondary relationship that doesn’t involve sharing a house and other types of responsibility? What time do you have to devote to another relationship while still giving all the things you give your wife in that relationship now (maybe a little less time, but the same love, commitment, etc)?
You need to answer for yourself what you want and then you need to articulate it to your wife. Not just, “hey I’ve discovered the term polyamorous and that’s what I am” but the nitty gritty details people learning about polyamory don’t take into consideration. Then talk to your wife, explain how much you love her and don’t want to leave her but you want to expand your heart and possibly your life to include other romantic partners. Find out what she can handle and what she can’t – and this may mean her saying no way not at all.
The possibilities are endless as to how this could play out. I guess what I’m saying is you have to take the risk in order to know what you can and can’t live with. I wish you luck in your journey… feel free to ask more questions… and thanks for reading the blog!
Mark said
Exactly right Mmkeekah, again, thank you for your time and interest. I suppose the trickiest part for me is wondering if, even over time, I can bring up the subject with her at all. Judging from our previous involvement, (how long it lasted and her reaction regarding open fathering), do you think the evidence provided by these elements are stong enough to warrant even one shot at a discussion about this, with her, without our relationship being irrevicably damaged? I suppose what I’m really asking here is, should I even bring this up with her? Knowing what you know about polyamory, is it such an explosive topic that it can ruin a relationship by just discussing it? I know how I feel, and what I want. She is a wonderfully strong and free soul, but sadly, can be quick to anger and act passionately from within the anger as it manifests. She can take an entire day to calm down, and many times can pull out many hurtful things to validate her side of a situation. After the world is on fire, and there’s nothing left to burn, she almost always calms down and grudgingly appologizes, and we move on from there. Don’t get me wrong, she is the woman for me, and the things that I have done and felt with her could not have been done with any other woman. Her passion is multi-faceted, and I gladly take the disagreements, for the positive energy far, far far outweighs the instances where we have to stop, push aside our egos for a while, and figure out a way through. I abbhor arguements, but thankfully, I have a very good memory, so the details don’t tend to get washed out of the discussion we’re having about how it is we got into an argument in the first place. I’m the kind of person who just wants it to be over quickly. Get in there, hash it out as rationally and as honestly as possible, discover a solution, take my share of the blame, forgive completely and move on, back to positive things, back to the love.
Hopefully this insight better explains why I feel like I’m soaked head to foot in gasoline, and the bar of love-gold has been tossed into the middle of the bonfire. From reading my story, and possessing your experience and dedication in the world of polyamory, what kind of a chance do I have in approaching the subject without being immolated? Is it possible for me to get within arm’s reach of the fire, and if I did, could I take the gold? Will she see this as a gift to all of us, or a perversion, like I’m trying to distance myself from the life we’re building? If the situation results in the latter, will she be secretly embittered for the rest of our lives? I know what I could be gambling with, but what kind of cards am I holding? I feel like I’m blind. Thank you again for your interest, I know you’re busy, I hope he gets better soon!
mmkeekah said
Again, its hard for me to answer that question for you, Mark. I am not in your relationship and I am not you. If it were me, I would probably broach the subject because I obviously felt strong enough about it and my partner is the kind of person who would listen to what I wanted without to much fallout. We also tend to fight passionately and both tend to say things we regret at a later time but we also know how to forgive each other for a passionate moment. That’s our dynamic though and I can’t answer for you if the result of you bringing this up is worth it for you.
Most people would say to you “be true to yourself.” Whatever that means to you personally – is what you should do.
Mark said
I think I’ve found the perfect man for my wife! He’s our age and he’s a ceramicist living in Japan! He’s Canadian, and he’s moving back here next week! My wife had a ceramic show with him and they seemed to get along very well. Polite, intelligent… the works! He’s married though, and has a child… Maybe somehow we can work this out? I dunno, what do you think? (excitedly grips his seat in anticipation)
Tall and handsome, just how she likes ‘em!
-Hinterland
Anonymous said
Hi Mark. This is Kevin. Sorry I’m so late chiming in on this conversation. I was kind of “funked out” for a few months there.
Let me try to tackle your questions.
Re “How do I even approach the subject of poly love?”
As a general rule, simple is best. “Honey, I still think about poly love.”
Re “Is there hope for me, or must I live forever with this terrible hunger?”
Your wife was a poly hinge once. The drug incident seemingly freaked her, but that doesn’t mean she’ll never consider polyamory again. I think there’s hope, but as Mmkeekah pointed out, you can’t guarantee anything about someone else’s actions; you can only choose your own actions. So the outcome depends on your wife’s decisions. The outcome you desire can’t be guaranteed, but it’s a possibility, and thus a hope.
Re “Judging from our previous involvement, do you think the evidence provided by these elements is stong enough to warrant even one shot at a discussion about this, with her, without our relationship being irrevicably damaged?”
I can’t imagine what permanent damage it would do to talk about it … unless your enthusiasm got way out of hand and turned into insistence. You have to give your wife the freedom to say “No,” and wait with patience between poly-related discussions.
Re “Should I even bring this up with her?”
I don’t see how you could not bring it up, considering how important it is to you. No sense in trying to contain it in a pressure cooker the rest of your life.
Re “Knowing what you know about polyamory, is it such an explosive topic that it can ruin a relationship by just discussing it?”
A lot of people are so conditioned by monogamy-bias that they are offended when polyamory is suggested. However, your wife has already practiced polyamory, so it’s nothing monstrous or shocking to her. Just discuss it sensitively and with thoughtful restraint. Let her decide the pace of the conversation.
Re “From reading my story, and possessing your experience and dedication in the world of polyamory, what kind of a chance do I have in approaching the subject without being immolated?”
Hard to say. Not sure of the dimensions of what freaked her out about the previous MFM relationship. Was it the drugs? Did she have second thoughts about practicing polyamory?
I guess you have an estimated 50% chance of not getting immolated. If polyamory is a passion for you, I suggest you bring it up anyway. Just brace yourself.
Re “Is it possible for me to get within arm’s reach of the fire, and if I did, could I take the gold?”
That’s up to her. All you can do is present your feelings … and you have to let her express hers. Maybe it won’t be now, but maybe someday she’ll feel safe enough to give you the gold. I don’t think you can just take it.
Re “Will she see this as a gift to all of us, or a perversion, like I’m trying to distance myself from the life we’re building?”
I think if you present your feelings to her honestly, she will see that your motives are sincere.
Re “If the situation results in the latter, will she be secretly embittered for the rest of our lives?”
She strikes me as more the type to (at worst) flare up for a little while, then calm down again. I could be wrong, but my guess is she wouldn’t be embittered.
Re “I know what I could be gambling with, but what kind of cards am I holding?”
You really should ask her that question. Ask her how she feels about polyamory. Ask her how she feels about the MFM relationship that you had. Ask her what (if anything) scared her about that.
Hope the new guy works out. Stay cool.
With regards,
Kevin T.